How to Hide from Killer Drones

(economist.com)

49 points | by pseudolus 1 hour ago

19 comments

  • orthoxerox 22 minutes ago
    Dazzle camouflage doesn't work on killer drones. Even civilian LLMs recognize that the object on the photograph is a military truck, except they can't explain why it's been painted to resemble a zebra. Most dedicated machine vision models easily lock in on a boxy shape moving along a road. If anything, the stripes make the trucks easier to see.

    The real answer to killer drones is a CIWS that can cover 2pi steradians and attack multiple drones at the same time, because otherwise it will be just swarmed by drones that quietly glide towards it, engines off, from several directions before entering the final dive.

    • ukd1 19 minutes ago
      • atoav 10 minutes ago
        [delayed]
    • 1over137 7 minutes ago
      CIWS?
      • rdist 2 minutes ago
        Close-In Weapon System

        The Phalanx defense systems you see on naval vessels.

    • yogthos 20 minutes ago
      The difference is that a neural network you can fit on a drone is going to be a lot less capable than an LLM you can run on a desktop.
      • MengerSponge 12 minutes ago
        Doesn't a fiber tether give its drone desktop-class computing?
        • vanviegen 7 minutes ago
          Fiber tethered drones don't need to be AI controlled.
          • rjsw 4 minutes ago
            They can have AI enabled graphics in the goggles of the operator.
  • lelandfe 3 minutes ago
    A tip from a 2024 Google paper[0]:

    > It's important to note that the risk of misuse is significantly lower for individuals who have never had typical speech patterns

    How to Hide from Killer Drones:

    It's important to note that that the risk of being riddled with drone bullets is significantly lower for individuals who have never had human physical characteristics.

    [0] https://research.google/blog/restoring-speaker-voices-with-z...

  • srameshc 2 minutes ago
    This title scared me, not for myself but more thinking about how kids will probably need to learn these things next. We are such strange 'intelligent' creatures who have figured out everything but not to be at peace with each other.
  • davidwritesbugs 25 minutes ago
    As a bonus it will also repel horse flies.

    https://www.science.org/content/article/zebra-stripes-confus...

  • haunter 8 minutes ago
    You don't

    /r/CombatFootage (NSFL)

  • ahartmetz 44 minutes ago
    Oh, so dazzle camouflage is back. I wonder if the more sophisticated "classic" patterns would work better. They certainly do for human observers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzle_camouflage

  • delichon 48 minutes ago
    Twenty four years later I'm still looking for ways to evade the spider drones deployed by PreCrime in Minority Report.
  • pseudolus 1 hour ago
  • tcp_handshaker 28 minutes ago
    • echelon 20 minutes ago
      Prescient.

      This film predated the Ukraine war, and it felt like fiction six years ago.

      This is absolutely coming.

      The government is concerned about who might print a 3D gun, but this is the real danger.

  • therobots927 3 minutes ago
    Censorship is alive and well on this cursed site
  • trhway 1 hour ago
    Half the time it is the nighttime and the things are in IR https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47000051 . You may still try to camouflage and decrease your IR visibility - stealth planes try to do it, and there are some IR-decreasing covers for tanks and people.

    The night time hunt using IR is widely practiced today in Ukraine and even was widely practiced by US and USSR in Afghanistan and Iraq as surroundings gets cooled down and cars, people and say donkeys used to transport weapons in mountains become highly contrast against the surroundings and thus easy to spot visually and to lock IR seeker of a weapon. Saddam used USSR anti-ship missiles, old even then, to attack Iran oil storage tanks at night as the missiles were easily able to lock on that large bright IR emission of the tanks still hot from the day against the cold night desert.

  • esseph 1 hour ago
    If you're really interested in this kind of thing, Grand Thumb on YouTube has a couple of videos about it. I think it was Dirty Civilian on YouTube that had a good video on how to prepare hide sites and the impact of using the right laundry detergent as to reduce or eliminate IR brightener chemicals, etc.
  • stefan_ 40 minutes ago
    This is an odd article that tries to elevate some random grunt in the field painting their truck white stripes to grand battlefield strategy in the face of autonomous AI killer drones. Neither are the latter real nor is the former actually in widespread use, and it obviously is not effective, not least because the drones it's talking about barely have the resolution at altitude to resolve that detail.
    • joezydeco 36 minutes ago
      • stefan_ 19 minutes ago
        Yes, media see a snapdragon running a YOLO and go off writing "AI apocalypse autonomous killer drones" articles.

        See it for yourselves: https://x.com/RALee85/status/2071537561059692956

        Some object detection and (human triggered) terminal guidance. It's essentially there to solve latency and control issues for a fixed wing platform with a spotty data link.

        • joezydeco 7 minutes ago
          If it works, who cares how it's made?
    • trhway 32 minutes ago
      >not least because the drones it's talking about barely have the resolution at altitude to resolve that detail.

      the drones are used in groups. That is for example how we have a lot of footage of the drones hitting targets. The drone observers or especially the intelligence drone guiding the group would frequently carry much better camera than the actual kamikaze drones (especially when it comes to high-resolution IR cameras which are expensive). In the fully autonomous AI mode the drone is usually given small target area where to operate (in particular because they aren't yet smart enough to differentiate Ukranians from Russians, so you'd like to confine their operations to a limited area and not letting it into the totally free hunt) and regular 4K camera is sufficient there. Again, there is a lot of footage on YT an TG.

      • stefan_ 2 minutes ago
        You are mixing more things. There's lots of ISR drones flying around, from DJIs at 50-150m altitude to bigger fixed wing platforms at 1000-1500m. Their point is to find targets, do BDA and monitor, but not autonomously; it's guys sitting in Discord calls and entering data into BMS.

        Most kamikaze drones are FPVs. They can not do anything autonomously because at $300 a pop in a totally GNSS denied environment, after 10 seconds past takeoff none of them have the faintest clue where they are. That's why you see all that footage, they just skip the part where for the first 20 minutes some guy with goggles is navigating them. The bigger fixed wing kamikaze drones like the Hornet above might have better onboard options like VO or triangulating radio beacons, but by all the evidence they are still guided by operators and triggered to dive manually. The biggest issue for all these systems is maintaining their video data link; if they were truly totally autonomous, nobody would bother.

  • ButlerianJihad 1 hour ago
    Machine Learning CAPTCHA https://m.xkcd.com/2228/
  • sleepyguy 39 minutes ago
    If anyone here is into drones, manufactures, ideas, or wants to either use their drone piloting skills or learn how to pilot drones. Ukraine is recruiting for positions.

    https://usforces.army/en

    • kakacik 26 minutes ago
      Just beware that being part of the drone team isnt some comfy safe job far from danger, they are the most hated type of unit currently since they are deciding large part of this war (and any future war it seems). I see videos of ie glide bombs used by both sides targetting specifically positions of drone teams.

      If all this is clear and you go ahead, all the power to ya, fighting evil in this world is highly commendable.

      • wartywhoa23 16 minutes ago
        > fighting evil in this world is highly commendable

        Except more often than not it is fighting not evil but sleeping civilians who don't support this war, which is not even war in the strict sense of the word, but a deliberate meatgrinder set up to devour as much human beings on both sides as its orchestrators can get away with, for as long as possible.

      • trhway 20 minutes ago
        Like sharpshooters, the drone operators are usually executed instead of being taken POW.
  • proshno 1 minute ago
    [dead]
  • jesuswasjew 39 minutes ago
    [flagged]
    • input_sh 36 minutes ago
      > Are paywalls ok?

      > It's ok to post stories from sites with paywalls that have workarounds.

      > In comments, it's ok to ask how to read an article and to help other users do so. But please don't post complaints about paywalls. Those are off topic. More here.

      https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html

  • karim79 29 minutes ago
    [flagged]